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"What gets me most excited about my career is there's so many different ways I can take it, right? There's so many different things I can get into. If I want to be a full fledged programmer, a software engineer for, you know, HVAC and BMS programming, I can do that. If I want to go and be a full fledged technician and work on the hardware and install BMS systems, I can do that. If I want to be a project manager where I'll, you know, oversee all these kinds of things, I can do that. There's so many things you could do in so many ways. You could take it that there's no limit.â
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âNathanseth Cruz
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Episode 152 is a conversation with Nathanseth Cruz from Dual Fuel and Michael Conway from Stacks+Joules.
Episode 152 is the second episode in our new workforce series, In The Field. In The Field features people working boots on the ground in the built environment, giving real-life perspectives on their roles, backgrounds, and aspirations. Episode 152 features Stacks+Joules graduate and senior controls technician Nathanseth Cruz of Dual Fuel and Stacks+Joules Founder and Executive Director Michael Conway. Nathanseth tells a heartfelt story about ambition, perseverance, and mentorship in a world he knew nothing about before his time at Stacks+Joules. Michael details how Stacks+Joules is committed not only to the technical training and certifications they provide but also to the people they serve and the ever-growing workforce needs of today. Enjoy!
You can find Nathanseth and Michael on LinkedIn.
Enjoy!
Nathansethâs journey to becoming a controls technician in his words (01:25)
Working as a controls technician (07:03)
Workforce challenges and intro to Stacks+Joules (11:11)
A new learning environment with Stacks+Joules (15:20)
The power of mentorship (22:34)
How to support Stacks+Joules (33:23)
Music credits: There Is A Reality by Common Tigerâlicensed under an Music Vine Limited Pro Standard License ID: S473464-15083. Bodhi Strut by Common Tigerâlicensed under an Music Vine Limited Pro Standard License ID: S473465-15083.
Note: transcript was created using an imperfect machine learning tool and lightly edited by a human (so you can get the gist). Please forgive errors!
[00:00:00] Nathanseth Cruz: You know, what gets me most excited about my career is there's so many different ways I can take it, right? There's so many different things I can get into. If I want to be a full fledged programmer, a software engineer for HVAC and BMS programming, I can do that. If I want to go and be a full fledged technician and Work on the hardware and install, um, BMS systems.
[00:00:27] And I can do that if I want to be a project manager where I'll, you know, oversee all these kinds of things. I can do that. There's so many things you could do in so many ways. You could take it that there is no limit.
[00:00:40] James Dice: Hey friends. If you like the Nexus podcast, the best way to continue the learning is to join our community.
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[00:01:25] Nathanseth Cruz: I'm Nathanseth Cruz, I'm 21 years old, I live in the Bronx, born and raised. And right now I'm a senior control technician and I work for Duel Fuel.
[00:01:43] So, I spent the majority of my day in a small building, um, up in Pelham Village. The main goal was to troubleshoot the controller. Apparently all the sensors were reading, um, as if they were disconnected. As if they weren't, you know, they [00:02:00] weren't. Receiving information to the controller, like nothing was going to the controller.
[00:02:06] So I spent my day figuring out why that was happening between me, um, checking the sequence, making sure nothing was going on that, that end and troubleshooting the hardware, I figured it out. Thankfully, at the end of the day, one of our current sensors was backfeeding into the controller, which was causing all the sensors to read as if they were disconnected.
[00:02:30] Um, and, you know, I've never been super into computers and I never thought about HVAC and things like that. My plan going into high school was I was going to go into law. I was going to be, um, either I was going to be a police officer or I was going to go be a lawyer. And at some point that... kind of changed for me.
[00:02:50] I worked in a law office over the summer throughout high school, throughout my junior year, and I realized I was like, yeah, this is, it's [00:03:00] not for me. You know, it didn't make me happy, didn't get me invigorated. So I began looking for other things to give me that kind of That, that feeling, that rush to actually get up every day and be like, all right, I want to start my day and I'm excited to get to work and I'm excited to do what I'm doing.
[00:03:19] I grew up in a surprisingly quiet street. Um, the areas around me weren't necessarily the best places, literally the street behind me, the street in front of me were very, um, crime ridden and gang ridden, but my street was awfully quiet. I, maybe because of the church, because there's a church on the corner of my home.
[00:03:43] Of my street, like a very big church. Maybe that would be the cause of it, but my street was awfully quiet. Um, school. I was, truthfully, I was never, I never felt comfortable at school. I always felt like it was, I don't know. I just didn't [00:04:00] feel comfortable. I didn't feel safe. So when I would go to school, I would kind of, okay, I have to go to school clearly, but I never felt safe in like opening up and being, you know, me and kind of getting too involved in like class activities, so I kind of more kept to myself and did what I had to do to get by.
[00:04:20] instead of actually trying to get engaged. Stacks+Joules. How I got to Stacks+Joules is very, to me, how I think about it is still very surprising. I got recommended by a very good friend of mine. I still remember the simple text she sent me. She sent me a text message with the flyer to Stacks+Joules through Henry Street, and she said, take advantage.
[00:04:43] That's all she said. And I was so intimidated. I was like, HVAC? I never thought I was going to get into HVAC. Programming? I never thought I could do this. I was so nervous. I was pacing back and forth in my living room. I was talking to my family. I was like, [00:05:00] do I do it? Do I do it? So I... I did it. I signed up and it was intense.
[00:05:06] We went through the interviewing phase with Mike and John and a few people from Henry Street. Again, so nervous. I've never been super into computers and I never thought about HVAC and things like that. I remember Mike and John told me, they were like, Listen, there's more people have signed up than we...
[00:05:28] anticipated. And I think I was, I think, number two on the waiting list at first. And they give me a call, like, are you still interested in the Stacks+Joules program? And I said, I was like, of course, because like, oh yeah, you can start, you can come in tomorrow. And once I stepped into Stacks+Joules, I never looked back.
[00:05:51] What gets me most excited about my career is there's so many different ways I can take it, right? There's so many different things I can get into. If I want to [00:06:00] be a full fledged programmer, a software engineer for, you know, HVAC and BMS programming, I can do that. If I want to go and be a full fledged technician and...
[00:06:14] Work on the hardware and install on BMS systems And I can do that if I want to be a project manager where I'll you know oversee all these kinds of I can do that There's so many things you could do in so many ways. You could take it that there's no limit
[00:06:31] James Dice: All right. Welcome to the Nexus podcast. This is chapter 2 of a new series called in the field.
[00:06:37] I'm James. Hi Rosy
[00:06:39] Rosy Khalife: Hi, everyone.
[00:06:40] James Dice: We're here with Nathanseth Cruz, who's currently a controls technician at Dual Fuel in New York City. And we're here with Mike Conway, founder and executive director at Stacks+Joules. Nathan, your, your intro story there was awesome. Thank you for taking us through your, your background.
[00:06:59] And everything [00:07:00] you're up to on a day to day basis. It's super inspiring. Can you start by taking us through a day in the life of a controls technician? Like what's, what's a normal day for you right now?
[00:07:12] Nathanseth Cruz: As of now, a normal day since, since it is the summer. And it's kind of the off season. Um, we're more kind of repairing, upgrading, making sure everything is ready for the heating season.
[00:07:27] So we, you know, upgrading all their software, make sure all of our hardware for our customers are, um, up to date and working well before that season comes. So everything is working as needed and as expected.
[00:07:41] James Dice: Awesome. So. I want you to give me a little bit more detail on your day. So what, what time do you start?
[00:07:48] Usually start at eight in the morning. And do you usually eat lunch on the job site or do you, do you leave for lunch?
[00:07:56] Nathanseth Cruz: On the job site, I've done it plenty of times where I'll eat [00:08:00] my lunch inside the boiler room. It, especially the long days when I have to sit there troubleshooting something for a long period of time, I'll probably go out, get...
[00:08:09] Get a sandwich or something and then just come back in the boardroom, eat it. And once I'm done, even if the sandwich takes me five minutes to eat, I'll just get back to what I was doing just so I can solve the problem.
[00:08:20] James Dice: Yeah. And are you usually alone or do you have some sort of, um, mentor with you or how does that work?
[00:08:25] Nathanseth Cruz: It depends. It varies on the day. Sometimes I have someone with me and not much of a, not really a mentor. I'll actually have maybe somebody I'm trying to actually train up, kind of show them the ropes with me or often I'll be alone. And, you know, I'll just be there to solve the problem and, you know, move on to the next, but yeah, often I, I probably have, as of now, especially since we have so many newcomers coming in, I have people with me, I'm trying to show the ropes and kind of show them how our controller works, how Sedona works and, you know, how [00:09:00] our platform usually, you know, works and how to troubleshoot our panel.
[00:09:04] Michael Conway: So, how long have you been working there, Nathanseth?
[00:09:07] Nathanseth Cruz: Um, wow. Um, I'm about to make two years in. October, October, I think it's October 13th, actually, uh, I'll be making two years at Duel Fuel.
[00:09:21] Rosy Khalife: That's amazing. Can you talk to us a little bit about the types of buildings that you work within? Are they a certain kind of building or all over the place?
[00:09:29] Size? Like, I'm just curious to understand how that works.
[00:09:33] Nathanseth Cruz: They are all over the place. They are. We have buildings in Queens. Brooklyn, we have small three story buildings, and we have giant buildings that are 30, 40 floors up. We actually installed one recently, um, on 43rd Street, literally right down the block from Times Square, and it's a...
[00:09:57] Beautiful building stuff on the inside and just [00:10:00] adds on courtyard. We, it varies. It can, it can be something, I think the smallest we've had is probably, like I said, I think three stories, probably like something like nine units. So that's like the smallest we've had, but nothing less than that. Definitely more, but nothing less than that.
[00:10:19] Rosy Khalife: And, and Nathanseth, are these residential or commercial or both?
[00:10:22] Nathanseth Cruz: They're mainly residential.
[00:10:24] Rosy Khalife: That's great. Um, in the intro, I know you mentioned project management, so I was curious how you're working towards that now since you've been at the job for two years.
[00:10:35] Nathanseth Cruz: My personal goal is to kind of get a better insight of thin outs of more of like upper management, right?
[00:10:44] Of how it feels, because I'm used to being the one doing all of the work and the one having my hands in the pot. Even my manager is kind of like, you know, you have people. that can help you now. People that are here to, you know, do the other [00:11:00] jobs while you work on other things you need to focus on. It's like, learn to delegate a little bit more.
[00:11:04] So it's kind of trying to take a step back and see, look at the bigger picture. Very cool.
[00:11:11] James Dice: Mike, I want to bring you in. Whenever I interact with you on one of our member events, I feel like it's, it's always Mike who's like raising his hand and saying like, The biggest problem that none of y'all are talking about is workforce, and I'd love for you to just talk about like this big challenge, which is getting building, getting technology installed in buildings requires overcoming this huge workforce bottleneck.
[00:11:36] Can you talk about kind of how you guys are attacking that and kind of where you fit in the other, you know, efforts that are working on that problem? And, and give a little introduction to Stacks+Joules.
[00:11:47] Michael Conway: Yeah, definitely. I'd say, um, you know, something that you have to be aware of in terms of this, this bottleneck is that, uh, you know, there's several drivers.
[00:11:56] One we know about and we hear a lot about the gray tsunami [00:12:00] and my voice is cracking. I am over adolescence, but, um, yeah, there's the gray tsunami, right? So a lot of retirement and that, that's a lot of, of, uh, of knowledge that's going to pass on. So we've got to take care of that. Um, there's, There's also this side of, that's not talked about a lot, that our generations are getting smaller.
[00:12:21] This is a point that Mandi Wedin, another Nexus member, really helped share, share and helped me realize is that, you know, there's like something like every year there's like a hundred thousand less 18 year olds coming of age than there were 10 years ago. So you're being pinched at both ends. My point there, and this goes to like where we are, is, you know, you heard it from Nathanseth, we are purposefully working to access People who don't know anything about this haven't had training.
[00:12:53] We're bringing in totally new, fresh talent and we're, and we're doing so with people that are being [00:13:00] filtered out. And this is why we're in this, in this crunch that we're in. We've, we've been just too successful at filtering people out. Uh, Nathan says, said, you know, like he struggled in high school. If you were to look at that transcript, not going to get in, right?
[00:13:14] Uh, if your job description says three to five years of experience, how's he going to get there? If it says, uh, you know, you need some kind of a degree, doesn't have it and you're not going to find them. So Stacks+Joules is kind of like a pre apprenticeship. We are working on that, on that edge and then have this, you know, really Dialed in approach to bringing them up to speed on the basics.
[00:13:37] Now, where we're going with expanding that and where we sit with relation to others is we're actually just starting with our last cohorts. For the first time we had two adult cohorts. Running at the same time and they both graduated. Um, one of them is our first all women's cohort, but we're, we're starting these pilot, uh, [00:14:00] partnerships, one with smart buildings Academy.
[00:14:03] So this is like next level training, you know, because smart buildings Academy, their focus is really working with companies to train people that are already hired. They do have their workforce development track to bring in people, but we're, we're now working with them and they're actually offering, um, their initial trainings, um, free of charge.
[00:14:22] And so our goal is to start to be able to do that concurrent, right? So we're sort of stacking on these layers of training. We're also working with, uh, Melissa Botwell, uh, from ASP Um, they have a really robust, uh, you know, federally recognized approved apprenticeship program. So we're also, um, you know, channeling our graduates into that.
[00:14:45] And again, after this pilot program, we anticipate. actually initiating that while they're still working with us. We have candidates that are ready to step right into work. Candidates like Nathanseth who just, from his [00:15:00] personality and his just like sharp, sharp intelligence and incredible work ethic, was ready to step in and be hired.
[00:15:08] And then we've got these other supports kind of coming online to channel them into The companies that SBA is working with, that ASP is working with, so that there's just a growing set of opportunities. Nathan, so, um, can you, can you speak to like that, that classroom environment and how, what, what kind of an effect that had on, on sort of getting you hooked and keeping you hooked?
[00:15:32] Nathanseth Cruz: It was probably the most positive and reinforcing learning environment that I've been in. There was nobody afraid to communicate and ask a question. You know, sometimes you don't always want to stop, um, stop what they're doing, kind of ask a question. We became so comfortable with each other. At the end of it all, we, it felt like a small family.
[00:15:53] Everybody was close with each other. We were all friends. We would go, we would all take lunch together. [00:16:00] Nobody really parted ways. It was so educational, but comforting, and it allowed people to open up and accept mistakes, accept trying again, keep going, don't give up, if you mess up, just keep trying, and you know, they don't, that's not something that's really reinforced too frequently, and they made sure that we had that experience, that positive experience while learning, and which allowed us to You actually be confident in going into this field.
[00:16:35] Because if I'm not wrong, the vast majority of everybody in my cohort at least had no experience in HVAC, none whatsoever. But with Mike and John and Fran, they allowed us to feel comfortable and confident and safe to actually explore the The feeling of having a team behind us and actually [00:17:00] working together and working together to learn and figuring it all out.
[00:17:04] Michael Conway: And what we're, what we're doing there is like, there is a lot around engagement and because usually when I'm asked that question, James, I like go into like, oh, we start off with Python and lighting controls. And then we go into HVAC, which, you know, I shouldn't be dismissive. So that is what we do. And they get an EPA 608 certification.
[00:17:20] And then we go into system integration and focus. You really using the Niagara framework as a tool to understand, you know, integration and IO devices and all that. Um, a big component of it is in the way that we approach it is by working with the, uh, our, our industry partners and Joey Bohm, who's the CEO of DualFuel, actually sits on our board.
[00:17:48] And, you know, that's just so important because he's informing us as to what the technical content that he's looking for, but also this, um, work environment that Nathanseth has [00:18:00] described. Uh, so as you think about that, you know, it's this environment where it's like, it's a lot of troubleshooting. So, so many technical learning Uh, courses are like step by step, you know, now do this and follow these directions.
[00:18:15] And that's not the conditions that you find yourself in when you're in the field. You have to be able to, to figure things out. So we're really setting up activities. Which you have to figure out and then in order to figure out you're going to need help because we we go in at like These are complex activities.
[00:18:33] They're not easily figured out things So you've got to work together and you've got a resource and you've got to start to understand among that class Who knows what who's better at what activities who's better at other things so that you can start to access You've got to practice like communication.
[00:18:48] I think we're hearing that from Nathanseth, right? You've got to be able to get on the phone and tell someone, Hey, I tried this, this, and this, what else might I be missing? And then receive directions. [00:19:00] Well, try this and go through a sequence. So our, our programs are like really designed purposefully to create that environment that, um, that Nathanseth is working in, um, so that they can.
[00:19:15] You know, struggle through it, uh, while they have the support of us and our instructors and, and, um, and each other.
[00:19:22] James Dice: Totally. So can you talk specifically about the challenge that you guys, like you guys overcome? Um, and, and maybe it'd be good to hear like, uh, another story of somebody else besides Nathan, just to give us a little bit more, um, Just a more background around the story a little bit.
[00:19:40] Michael Conway: Sure. Yeah. No, there's definitely one and Nathan mentioned this person Tenon who was hired maybe six months ago now. Is that right? Something like that?
[00:19:53] Nathanseth Cruz: Yeah, something
[00:19:55] Michael Conway: So Tenon was not so Nathan says whether it was in [00:20:00] our first adult cohort Tenon I believe was in our second. So after It took her a long time to get a job.
[00:20:09] So this is just another example, right? Because... What we're seeing, like, we are really close in these communities. In the Lower East Side, we partner with community organizations that know the Bronx, that know these different communities. And you see all of this incredible talent that is just being filtered out, right?
[00:20:26] So that's the challenge. Is how do we, like, get through those filters and help people bridge those filters. Uh, so, Tenen, English is a second language. She's from, uh, CĂ´te d'Ivoire and, um, speaks, you know, French as well as a local dialect. And so that, that kind of masks some of her intelligence. Right? And so she wasn't interviewing well because of that language block, but she actually had a degree from a technical training, like a community college in Cote d'Ivoire and a degree [00:21:00] in as an electrician.
[00:21:01] She had an electrician's license that was good there, not transferring over here. She ran her own company, uh, installing security systems. I mean, these are like, Directly, you know, install a security system or install T STARS and that kind of hardware. But it's hidden. I mean, for her, I think she was out maybe six months searching and searching, uh, until, you know, this position opened up at DualFuel and we were able to give her this strong recommendation.
[00:21:31] Now, what that, what that takes is, again, I go to, you know, Joey Baum, who's on our board, and this is the third hire. She's the third hire, um, but he has that vision. That same vision, right? Saying like, these are people of excellence. They may need some more initial support because they are coming in with uh, you know, without that background.
[00:21:54] But um, as they come in, we're going to make sure they get that support and, and because they know two years [00:22:00] And Nathanseth is not only independent in the field, he's training new people. So he's adding incredible value. So he's got the foresight to do that. I think someone else is Rush, Rush Shah, who they, they more recently hired to run their controls program.
[00:22:18] And it turns out Rush has been a great. mentor. I don't know if you want to speak to that, Nathanseth, just like what it's like to work for someone like, like Rush and what his outlook is and how he's helped you through those difficult first, you know, first year of employment.
[00:22:34] Nathanseth Cruz: Yeah, Rush is a positive force, right?
[00:22:37] And he has a great vision. He doesn't just have a vision of the bigger picture. He looks at each and every one of us, and he talks to, when he first got hired, he spoke to me individually, and he asked me, he said, what is your goal? What do you want? And I told him a list of things I want in my future, how I want it to look like.[00:23:00]
[00:23:00] And he said, so that is what we're going to work towards. And he said that he's going to help me work towards that, that vision and that dream. So, Not just him looking at, okay, I need to, you know, lead this department. He looks at all of us and he says, he says he needs to lead each and every one of us individually.
[00:23:21] Help us, each and every one of us grow. And that from the very, from the very first time I met him, that impressed me. You know, 'cause you don't get that from everybody. He took the time, he, he had the patience. And to this day when there's something that I don't completely understand and completely know, he was sit, he was sitting me down and, you know, some of the new hires and he would explain it to us.
[00:23:47] With no worry, no concern, no frustration. He'll sit there and he'll explain it to us. For someone that's supposed to be leading the department, he makes that, that [00:24:00] effort to each person and not just developing the whole department, just each and every one of us. And that alone is a, is a big statement to me personally.
[00:24:09] That's a... You don't see that often.
[00:24:13] Michael Conway: It's a, you know, not, not yet a large organization, right? Everyone is working as hard as they can. They're growing like rapidly because of the quality of their work. So yes, very rapidly. Like the work environment. And I bring that back to like, when we were talking about the classroom environment, that's why we're creating a classroom environment like that.
[00:24:34] Our, our industry contacts, right, where we're getting our input from. Is that's the work environment that they want workers prepared for, right? So that's why we do that specifically in our classroom. And we do it strategically, right? We do a thing, um, that's called appreciations, right? Very, very simple activity where, um, at the end of class, it's peer to peer.
[00:24:58] So it's, it's learner to learner, [00:25:00] student to student, where they like, it's more than shout outs. We have to actually train them to get very specific. How did someone help you? What did they help you with? What did they do that was helpful, right? So they describe that and they give each other that appreciations and that leads up to this activity that we call hot seat I don't know if you want to describe that Nathanseth and what it was like for you.
[00:25:23] Nathanseth Cruz: Yeah, it was Hot seat is it's we often overlook what we're capable of We often overlook our own knowledge and what we do on a daily basis. Something we think is so small to somebody else we possibly help or, you know, con had some contact with and sees that something amazing. So correct me if I'm wrong, we would, he would pick someone from the group and you have 'em sit up front and people from the class [00:26:00] would basically comment.
[00:26:03] and say what they did that day or things you saw them do and what kind of person they are and how this positive thing that would just flow in and I think I was in the hot seat once. I think I was in the hot seat once and that was overwhelming. I've never, it was overwhelming. I was in the hot seat once and I think it was actually towards the end of the cohort and it was It was intense.
[00:26:35] I'm hearing a whole bunch of things. I'm like, really? I would've never thought of it. I would've never assumed these people view me this kind of way, had this thought of me, or that I made such an impact on someone's day. And that activity to this day is probably the most, like... Aw. Surprising and impactful activities I've [00:27:00] ever had in contact with.
[00:27:01] Rosy Khalife: That's awesome.
[00:27:02] Michael Conway: I think we can hear like the commitment and, and uh, to the industry and to, to the job to definitely the Stacks and Jules, he's a, he's a band leader. One other thing, uh, uh, is, um, cause I really just want to make sure that we get this in Nathanseth is, uh, and this is about our program too, right?
[00:27:21] It is, um, It's not, we're not a train and then put them out into the, you know, send them out there to get a job. We, we support very intensely for at least the first year afterwards. And sometimes it takes, you know, some work to get a job. But in, in Nathan's, um, uh, case. You know, those first months were hard.
[00:27:44] It typically is for our graduates, really, those first months on the job. Mainly because they really want to do a good job, and they're completely overwhelmed with how much new information and what they don't know. And so they worry that they're not doing a good job. So they are, they're kind of freaking out.[00:28:00]
[00:28:00] And we, um, we connected Nathanseth with, um, Steven Crowe. Who, uh, I think at that point was working with Resolute Building Intelligence, and then moved on to Netix AI, and is now with Jackson Controls. Yes. Can you describe, like, what, what that relationship was like, or what, what you did, and what that meant to you?
[00:28:27] Nathanseth Cruz: Steven, again, someone else in my life that kind of thinks of Mike and John has been very influential, and again, another positive force, um, He, when I had my moments where I'm like, Steve, I don't know, I don't know if I'm capable of doing this. I don't know if I can attain that goal that I, I desire, you know, attain that, that project manager status.
[00:28:56] And I told him at some point, um, you know, [00:29:00] be more than just a project management, you know, be, be more than that. And he's called me when I texted him and said things like this. And he had to, Hey dude, take a minute, take a step back. He's like, we all have these days. And we all go through it, you know, just take a minute, take a breather.
[00:29:20] And he keeps telling me to do this, and I still have yet to do this. I need to, he's like, write down all the things you do right. Every win, small or large, write it down. So whenever you have that loss, and you feel like you're down, and you're not doing much, and you're going through a tough time. Take a look at that list of what you've done.
[00:29:44] So all the good and right things you've done, all the things that made an impact, and it'll give you another sense of gratitude for how you come along and that one loss won't be as big once [00:30:00] you look at that list. So instead of writing it down, I kind of stink about it. I'm like, Hey, I did this, you know, but I need to start writing it down because it's, I'm pretty sure it would be a lot more impactful once I started doing that.
[00:30:12] But he is another amazing force, amazing person. We have, we used to have weekly, um, talks. I think it was on Wednesday, we would have a call and we'd talk for like an hour. Right, it would be scheduled for 30 minutes, but we'd get so caught up, we'd be on the phone for maybe an hour, an hour and 30 minutes, just talking back and forth and, you know, him giving me advice and, you know, we've spoken about, um, that he wants to come to New York at one point and I was telling him a whole bunch of places he can go to.
[00:30:45] He became a figure. In my life, like a positive, big brother, fatherly kind of figure, a mentor, right? Him and Rush are probably, [00:31:00] right now, my two biggest mentors at the moment, right? And I'm grateful. I'm truthfully, honestly grateful, especially that they got me in contact with Steve. He's... I, I can't even put into words like how motivational he's been for me so far.
[00:31:19] He's, there was a point where I was like, Oh no, I was like, I can't become a project manager. And he was like, you need help. There's some things I could show you, some things you can, you can, some tools, some tricks, some tips that you can help you get along and help you attain that goal more effectively and make things a lot easier for you.
[00:31:41] Michael Conway: It's one of these awesome cases where, um, you know, it's good work. I, I do feel I'm living a really good life and, um, uh, and that that's really important to me. It's also pragmatic. So if we're going to address the needs, you know, like the mission needs, um, [00:32:00] and the workforce needs, we've, we've got to be able to access.
[00:32:05] The talent that we haven't been getting to. And that takes many layers of work and very, very strategic approaches to how we teach. We do need to be dialed in on the technical side, right? That doesn't change, but I think we hear from, from Nathanseth that, that he's on point technically. Um, he's out there doing the work, but there's this, you know, there's also this, um, the aspect of, of how are we doing it?
[00:32:31] How are we keeping him involved? How are we helping him to see himself in this industry? Uh, how do we... When he's, when he's down, it's all of that work of connecting them with mentors, uh, checking in, uh, getting them connected with, with James Dice and the Nexus podcast. Um, that's going on for all the individuals that, that we're working with.
[00:32:53] So it's, it's a very, it's very intense. Uh, but the good thing is like. There's a lot of [00:33:00] really good people out there, right? We have people mentoring, um, line, lining up, uh, mentors. And, and definitely, um, if that's, that's an area that, that you'd be interested in, uh, please get in touch. Uh, we have some really great people to, to connect you with, that you can have a great impact on.
[00:33:18] Rosy Khalife: That leads me to my next question, and I'm sure what the audience is thinking about. How can people support and get involved with Stacks+Joules? So you mentioned mentorship, what else?
[00:33:29] Michael Conway: Uh, well, certainly you can, um, you know, hit our website and, and donate, um, Takes resources to, to bring in this talent. And, um, uh, I think, you know, connect with any of the companies that have hired to hear about the value that, that are, uh, that we're bringing.
[00:33:45] And it's not our goal. It's our mission. Our trainings are free. We do not charge. Uh, and we even go above and beyond to like offer stipends and things when we can, so that we can access that talent that is not, that has not [00:34:00] yet been, uh, accessed. So that's a big one. And, um, and then we're, we're always learning, we're modeling that, but it's also how we've built our program, right?
[00:34:09] It's constantly updating our curriculum and our, our approaches. So reach out. Uh, we'd love to have you as a guest in a, in a class, uh, either virtually or in person. And we'd love to, uh, work with you to develop an activity that we could even test out and, uh, and, and initiate in our classes.
[00:34:27] James Dice: Awesome. Well, Mike, Nathanseth, thanks so much for coming on the show.
[00:34:32] Really appreciate your guys story.
[00:34:34] Nathanseth Cruz: Thank you for having me, James. Thank you, Rosie.
[00:34:36] Rosy Khalife: Thank you both. Yeah, it was so inspiring. It's, Nathan, a lot of the things you said, I feel like, uh, people that are much older than you don't even know. And so I love, I love your wisdom. It was really, really special. And it was a message that really touched me today.
[00:34:53] So thank you for sharing that. And thanks for being honest with us.
[00:34:55] James Dice: Yes. And not everyone has mentors like that, even if they're in a different [00:35:00] position in life. Um, Rosie and I have had a similar day that you just described and we could really use a call from Mr. Steven Crowe to pump us up a little bit.
[00:35:10] Michael Conway: Well, James, I'd count you among my mentors. You've helped out in many ways with, uh, yeah, the membership and the The pro membership where I've learned so much about this industry, um, this experience now, meeting at conferences, um, so I really want to thank you and, and hope that you, uh, sincerely, you know, feel your, your effect on people like Nathanseth.
[00:35:32] James Dice: I do. Thanks for saying that.
[00:35:34] Rosy Khalife: That's so sweet, Mike. It's gonna make us cry. Yeah, it's the best.
[00:35:39] Michael Conway: We should all feel good.
[00:35:43] Rosy Khalife: Okay, friends. Thank you for listening to this episode. As we continue to grow our global community of change makers, we need your help for the next couple of months. We're challenging our listeners to share a link to their favorite nexus episode on LinkedIn with a short post about why you listen. It would really, [00:36:00] really help us out.
[00:36:01] Make sure to tag us in the post so we can see it. Have a good one.
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"What gets me most excited about my career is there's so many different ways I can take it, right? There's so many different things I can get into. If I want to be a full fledged programmer, a software engineer for, you know, HVAC and BMS programming, I can do that. If I want to go and be a full fledged technician and work on the hardware and install BMS systems, I can do that. If I want to be a project manager where I'll, you know, oversee all these kinds of things, I can do that. There's so many things you could do in so many ways. You could take it that there's no limit.â
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âNathanseth Cruz
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Episode 152 is a conversation with Nathanseth Cruz from Dual Fuel and Michael Conway from Stacks+Joules.
Episode 152 is the second episode in our new workforce series, In The Field. In The Field features people working boots on the ground in the built environment, giving real-life perspectives on their roles, backgrounds, and aspirations. Episode 152 features Stacks+Joules graduate and senior controls technician Nathanseth Cruz of Dual Fuel and Stacks+Joules Founder and Executive Director Michael Conway. Nathanseth tells a heartfelt story about ambition, perseverance, and mentorship in a world he knew nothing about before his time at Stacks+Joules. Michael details how Stacks+Joules is committed not only to the technical training and certifications they provide but also to the people they serve and the ever-growing workforce needs of today. Enjoy!
You can find Nathanseth and Michael on LinkedIn.
Enjoy!
Nathansethâs journey to becoming a controls technician in his words (01:25)
Working as a controls technician (07:03)
Workforce challenges and intro to Stacks+Joules (11:11)
A new learning environment with Stacks+Joules (15:20)
The power of mentorship (22:34)
How to support Stacks+Joules (33:23)
Music credits: There Is A Reality by Common Tigerâlicensed under an Music Vine Limited Pro Standard License ID: S473464-15083. Bodhi Strut by Common Tigerâlicensed under an Music Vine Limited Pro Standard License ID: S473465-15083.
Note: transcript was created using an imperfect machine learning tool and lightly edited by a human (so you can get the gist). Please forgive errors!
[00:00:00] Nathanseth Cruz: You know, what gets me most excited about my career is there's so many different ways I can take it, right? There's so many different things I can get into. If I want to be a full fledged programmer, a software engineer for HVAC and BMS programming, I can do that. If I want to go and be a full fledged technician and Work on the hardware and install, um, BMS systems.
[00:00:27] And I can do that if I want to be a project manager where I'll, you know, oversee all these kinds of things. I can do that. There's so many things you could do in so many ways. You could take it that there is no limit.
[00:00:40] James Dice: Hey friends. If you like the Nexus podcast, the best way to continue the learning is to join our community.
[00:00:45] There are three ways to do that. First, you can join the Nexus Pro Membership. It's our global community of smart building professionals. We have monthly events, paywall deep dive content, and a private chat room. And it's just 35 dollars a month. Second, you can upgrade from the Pro Membership to [00:01:00] our courses offering.
[00:01:01] It's headlined by our flagship course, the Smart Building Strategist, and we're building a catalog of courses taught by world leading experts on each topic under the Smart Buildings umbrella. Third, and finally, our Marketplace is how we connect leading vendors with buyers looking for their solutions.
[00:01:17] The links are below in the show notes. And now let's go on to the podcast.
[00:01:25] Nathanseth Cruz: I'm Nathanseth Cruz, I'm 21 years old, I live in the Bronx, born and raised. And right now I'm a senior control technician and I work for Duel Fuel.
[00:01:43] So, I spent the majority of my day in a small building, um, up in Pelham Village. The main goal was to troubleshoot the controller. Apparently all the sensors were reading, um, as if they were disconnected. As if they weren't, you know, they [00:02:00] weren't. Receiving information to the controller, like nothing was going to the controller.
[00:02:06] So I spent my day figuring out why that was happening between me, um, checking the sequence, making sure nothing was going on that, that end and troubleshooting the hardware, I figured it out. Thankfully, at the end of the day, one of our current sensors was backfeeding into the controller, which was causing all the sensors to read as if they were disconnected.
[00:02:30] Um, and, you know, I've never been super into computers and I never thought about HVAC and things like that. My plan going into high school was I was going to go into law. I was going to be, um, either I was going to be a police officer or I was going to go be a lawyer. And at some point that... kind of changed for me.
[00:02:50] I worked in a law office over the summer throughout high school, throughout my junior year, and I realized I was like, yeah, this is, it's [00:03:00] not for me. You know, it didn't make me happy, didn't get me invigorated. So I began looking for other things to give me that kind of That, that feeling, that rush to actually get up every day and be like, all right, I want to start my day and I'm excited to get to work and I'm excited to do what I'm doing.
[00:03:19] I grew up in a surprisingly quiet street. Um, the areas around me weren't necessarily the best places, literally the street behind me, the street in front of me were very, um, crime ridden and gang ridden, but my street was awfully quiet. I, maybe because of the church, because there's a church on the corner of my home.
[00:03:43] Of my street, like a very big church. Maybe that would be the cause of it, but my street was awfully quiet. Um, school. I was, truthfully, I was never, I never felt comfortable at school. I always felt like it was, I don't know. I just didn't [00:04:00] feel comfortable. I didn't feel safe. So when I would go to school, I would kind of, okay, I have to go to school clearly, but I never felt safe in like opening up and being, you know, me and kind of getting too involved in like class activities, so I kind of more kept to myself and did what I had to do to get by.
[00:04:20] instead of actually trying to get engaged. Stacks+Joules. How I got to Stacks+Joules is very, to me, how I think about it is still very surprising. I got recommended by a very good friend of mine. I still remember the simple text she sent me. She sent me a text message with the flyer to Stacks+Joules through Henry Street, and she said, take advantage.
[00:04:43] That's all she said. And I was so intimidated. I was like, HVAC? I never thought I was going to get into HVAC. Programming? I never thought I could do this. I was so nervous. I was pacing back and forth in my living room. I was talking to my family. I was like, [00:05:00] do I do it? Do I do it? So I... I did it. I signed up and it was intense.
[00:05:06] We went through the interviewing phase with Mike and John and a few people from Henry Street. Again, so nervous. I've never been super into computers and I never thought about HVAC and things like that. I remember Mike and John told me, they were like, Listen, there's more people have signed up than we...
[00:05:28] anticipated. And I think I was, I think, number two on the waiting list at first. And they give me a call, like, are you still interested in the Stacks+Joules program? And I said, I was like, of course, because like, oh yeah, you can start, you can come in tomorrow. And once I stepped into Stacks+Joules, I never looked back.
[00:05:51] What gets me most excited about my career is there's so many different ways I can take it, right? There's so many different things I can get into. If I want to [00:06:00] be a full fledged programmer, a software engineer for, you know, HVAC and BMS programming, I can do that. If I want to go and be a full fledged technician and...
[00:06:14] Work on the hardware and install on BMS systems And I can do that if I want to be a project manager where I'll you know oversee all these kinds of I can do that There's so many things you could do in so many ways. You could take it that there's no limit
[00:06:31] James Dice: All right. Welcome to the Nexus podcast. This is chapter 2 of a new series called in the field.
[00:06:37] I'm James. Hi Rosy
[00:06:39] Rosy Khalife: Hi, everyone.
[00:06:40] James Dice: We're here with Nathanseth Cruz, who's currently a controls technician at Dual Fuel in New York City. And we're here with Mike Conway, founder and executive director at Stacks+Joules. Nathan, your, your intro story there was awesome. Thank you for taking us through your, your background.
[00:06:59] And everything [00:07:00] you're up to on a day to day basis. It's super inspiring. Can you start by taking us through a day in the life of a controls technician? Like what's, what's a normal day for you right now?
[00:07:12] Nathanseth Cruz: As of now, a normal day since, since it is the summer. And it's kind of the off season. Um, we're more kind of repairing, upgrading, making sure everything is ready for the heating season.
[00:07:27] So we, you know, upgrading all their software, make sure all of our hardware for our customers are, um, up to date and working well before that season comes. So everything is working as needed and as expected.
[00:07:41] James Dice: Awesome. So. I want you to give me a little bit more detail on your day. So what, what time do you start?
[00:07:48] Usually start at eight in the morning. And do you usually eat lunch on the job site or do you, do you leave for lunch?
[00:07:56] Nathanseth Cruz: On the job site, I've done it plenty of times where I'll eat [00:08:00] my lunch inside the boiler room. It, especially the long days when I have to sit there troubleshooting something for a long period of time, I'll probably go out, get...
[00:08:09] Get a sandwich or something and then just come back in the boardroom, eat it. And once I'm done, even if the sandwich takes me five minutes to eat, I'll just get back to what I was doing just so I can solve the problem.
[00:08:20] James Dice: Yeah. And are you usually alone or do you have some sort of, um, mentor with you or how does that work?
[00:08:25] Nathanseth Cruz: It depends. It varies on the day. Sometimes I have someone with me and not much of a, not really a mentor. I'll actually have maybe somebody I'm trying to actually train up, kind of show them the ropes with me or often I'll be alone. And, you know, I'll just be there to solve the problem and, you know, move on to the next, but yeah, often I, I probably have, as of now, especially since we have so many newcomers coming in, I have people with me, I'm trying to show the ropes and kind of show them how our controller works, how Sedona works and, you know, how [00:09:00] our platform usually, you know, works and how to troubleshoot our panel.
[00:09:04] Michael Conway: So, how long have you been working there, Nathanseth?
[00:09:07] Nathanseth Cruz: Um, wow. Um, I'm about to make two years in. October, October, I think it's October 13th, actually, uh, I'll be making two years at Duel Fuel.
[00:09:21] Rosy Khalife: That's amazing. Can you talk to us a little bit about the types of buildings that you work within? Are they a certain kind of building or all over the place?
[00:09:29] Size? Like, I'm just curious to understand how that works.
[00:09:33] Nathanseth Cruz: They are all over the place. They are. We have buildings in Queens. Brooklyn, we have small three story buildings, and we have giant buildings that are 30, 40 floors up. We actually installed one recently, um, on 43rd Street, literally right down the block from Times Square, and it's a...
[00:09:57] Beautiful building stuff on the inside and just [00:10:00] adds on courtyard. We, it varies. It can, it can be something, I think the smallest we've had is probably, like I said, I think three stories, probably like something like nine units. So that's like the smallest we've had, but nothing less than that. Definitely more, but nothing less than that.
[00:10:19] Rosy Khalife: And, and Nathanseth, are these residential or commercial or both?
[00:10:22] Nathanseth Cruz: They're mainly residential.
[00:10:24] Rosy Khalife: That's great. Um, in the intro, I know you mentioned project management, so I was curious how you're working towards that now since you've been at the job for two years.
[00:10:35] Nathanseth Cruz: My personal goal is to kind of get a better insight of thin outs of more of like upper management, right?
[00:10:44] Of how it feels, because I'm used to being the one doing all of the work and the one having my hands in the pot. Even my manager is kind of like, you know, you have people. that can help you now. People that are here to, you know, do the other [00:11:00] jobs while you work on other things you need to focus on. It's like, learn to delegate a little bit more.
[00:11:04] So it's kind of trying to take a step back and see, look at the bigger picture. Very cool.
[00:11:11] James Dice: Mike, I want to bring you in. Whenever I interact with you on one of our member events, I feel like it's, it's always Mike who's like raising his hand and saying like, The biggest problem that none of y'all are talking about is workforce, and I'd love for you to just talk about like this big challenge, which is getting building, getting technology installed in buildings requires overcoming this huge workforce bottleneck.
[00:11:36] Can you talk about kind of how you guys are attacking that and kind of where you fit in the other, you know, efforts that are working on that problem? And, and give a little introduction to Stacks+Joules.
[00:11:47] Michael Conway: Yeah, definitely. I'd say, um, you know, something that you have to be aware of in terms of this, this bottleneck is that, uh, you know, there's several drivers.
[00:11:56] One we know about and we hear a lot about the gray tsunami [00:12:00] and my voice is cracking. I am over adolescence, but, um, yeah, there's the gray tsunami, right? So a lot of retirement and that, that's a lot of, of, uh, of knowledge that's going to pass on. So we've got to take care of that. Um, there's, There's also this side of, that's not talked about a lot, that our generations are getting smaller.
[00:12:21] This is a point that Mandi Wedin, another Nexus member, really helped share, share and helped me realize is that, you know, there's like something like every year there's like a hundred thousand less 18 year olds coming of age than there were 10 years ago. So you're being pinched at both ends. My point there, and this goes to like where we are, is, you know, you heard it from Nathanseth, we are purposefully working to access People who don't know anything about this haven't had training.
[00:12:53] We're bringing in totally new, fresh talent and we're, and we're doing so with people that are being [00:13:00] filtered out. And this is why we're in this, in this crunch that we're in. We've, we've been just too successful at filtering people out. Uh, Nathan says, said, you know, like he struggled in high school. If you were to look at that transcript, not going to get in, right?
[00:13:14] Uh, if your job description says three to five years of experience, how's he going to get there? If it says, uh, you know, you need some kind of a degree, doesn't have it and you're not going to find them. So Stacks+Joules is kind of like a pre apprenticeship. We are working on that, on that edge and then have this, you know, really Dialed in approach to bringing them up to speed on the basics.
[00:13:37] Now, where we're going with expanding that and where we sit with relation to others is we're actually just starting with our last cohorts. For the first time we had two adult cohorts. Running at the same time and they both graduated. Um, one of them is our first all women's cohort, but we're, we're starting these pilot, uh, [00:14:00] partnerships, one with smart buildings Academy.
[00:14:03] So this is like next level training, you know, because smart buildings Academy, their focus is really working with companies to train people that are already hired. They do have their workforce development track to bring in people, but we're, we're now working with them and they're actually offering, um, their initial trainings, um, free of charge.
[00:14:22] And so our goal is to start to be able to do that concurrent, right? So we're sort of stacking on these layers of training. We're also working with, uh, Melissa Botwell, uh, from ASP Um, they have a really robust, uh, you know, federally recognized approved apprenticeship program. So we're also, um, you know, channeling our graduates into that.
[00:14:45] And again, after this pilot program, we anticipate. actually initiating that while they're still working with us. We have candidates that are ready to step right into work. Candidates like Nathanseth who just, from his [00:15:00] personality and his just like sharp, sharp intelligence and incredible work ethic, was ready to step in and be hired.
[00:15:08] And then we've got these other supports kind of coming online to channel them into The companies that SBA is working with, that ASP is working with, so that there's just a growing set of opportunities. Nathan, so, um, can you, can you speak to like that, that classroom environment and how, what, what kind of an effect that had on, on sort of getting you hooked and keeping you hooked?
[00:15:32] Nathanseth Cruz: It was probably the most positive and reinforcing learning environment that I've been in. There was nobody afraid to communicate and ask a question. You know, sometimes you don't always want to stop, um, stop what they're doing, kind of ask a question. We became so comfortable with each other. At the end of it all, we, it felt like a small family.
[00:15:53] Everybody was close with each other. We were all friends. We would go, we would all take lunch together. [00:16:00] Nobody really parted ways. It was so educational, but comforting, and it allowed people to open up and accept mistakes, accept trying again, keep going, don't give up, if you mess up, just keep trying, and you know, they don't, that's not something that's really reinforced too frequently, and they made sure that we had that experience, that positive experience while learning, and which allowed us to You actually be confident in going into this field.
[00:16:35] Because if I'm not wrong, the vast majority of everybody in my cohort at least had no experience in HVAC, none whatsoever. But with Mike and John and Fran, they allowed us to feel comfortable and confident and safe to actually explore the The feeling of having a team behind us and actually [00:17:00] working together and working together to learn and figuring it all out.
[00:17:04] Michael Conway: And what we're, what we're doing there is like, there is a lot around engagement and because usually when I'm asked that question, James, I like go into like, oh, we start off with Python and lighting controls. And then we go into HVAC, which, you know, I shouldn't be dismissive. So that is what we do. And they get an EPA 608 certification.
[00:17:20] And then we go into system integration and focus. You really using the Niagara framework as a tool to understand, you know, integration and IO devices and all that. Um, a big component of it is in the way that we approach it is by working with the, uh, our, our industry partners and Joey Bohm, who's the CEO of DualFuel, actually sits on our board.
[00:17:48] And, you know, that's just so important because he's informing us as to what the technical content that he's looking for, but also this, um, work environment that Nathanseth has [00:18:00] described. Uh, so as you think about that, you know, it's this environment where it's like, it's a lot of troubleshooting. So, so many technical learning Uh, courses are like step by step, you know, now do this and follow these directions.
[00:18:15] And that's not the conditions that you find yourself in when you're in the field. You have to be able to, to figure things out. So we're really setting up activities. Which you have to figure out and then in order to figure out you're going to need help because we we go in at like These are complex activities.
[00:18:33] They're not easily figured out things So you've got to work together and you've got a resource and you've got to start to understand among that class Who knows what who's better at what activities who's better at other things so that you can start to access You've got to practice like communication.
[00:18:48] I think we're hearing that from Nathanseth, right? You've got to be able to get on the phone and tell someone, Hey, I tried this, this, and this, what else might I be missing? And then receive directions. [00:19:00] Well, try this and go through a sequence. So our, our programs are like really designed purposefully to create that environment that, um, that Nathanseth is working in, um, so that they can.
[00:19:15] You know, struggle through it, uh, while they have the support of us and our instructors and, and, um, and each other.
[00:19:22] James Dice: Totally. So can you talk specifically about the challenge that you guys, like you guys overcome? Um, and, and maybe it'd be good to hear like, uh, another story of somebody else besides Nathan, just to give us a little bit more, um, Just a more background around the story a little bit.
[00:19:40] Michael Conway: Sure. Yeah. No, there's definitely one and Nathan mentioned this person Tenon who was hired maybe six months ago now. Is that right? Something like that?
[00:19:53] Nathanseth Cruz: Yeah, something
[00:19:55] Michael Conway: So Tenon was not so Nathan says whether it was in [00:20:00] our first adult cohort Tenon I believe was in our second. So after It took her a long time to get a job.
[00:20:09] So this is just another example, right? Because... What we're seeing, like, we are really close in these communities. In the Lower East Side, we partner with community organizations that know the Bronx, that know these different communities. And you see all of this incredible talent that is just being filtered out, right?
[00:20:26] So that's the challenge. Is how do we, like, get through those filters and help people bridge those filters. Uh, so, Tenen, English is a second language. She's from, uh, CĂ´te d'Ivoire and, um, speaks, you know, French as well as a local dialect. And so that, that kind of masks some of her intelligence. Right? And so she wasn't interviewing well because of that language block, but she actually had a degree from a technical training, like a community college in Cote d'Ivoire and a degree [00:21:00] in as an electrician.
[00:21:01] She had an electrician's license that was good there, not transferring over here. She ran her own company, uh, installing security systems. I mean, these are like, Directly, you know, install a security system or install T STARS and that kind of hardware. But it's hidden. I mean, for her, I think she was out maybe six months searching and searching, uh, until, you know, this position opened up at DualFuel and we were able to give her this strong recommendation.
[00:21:31] Now, what that, what that takes is, again, I go to, you know, Joey Baum, who's on our board, and this is the third hire. She's the third hire, um, but he has that vision. That same vision, right? Saying like, these are people of excellence. They may need some more initial support because they are coming in with uh, you know, without that background.
[00:21:54] But um, as they come in, we're going to make sure they get that support and, and because they know two years [00:22:00] And Nathanseth is not only independent in the field, he's training new people. So he's adding incredible value. So he's got the foresight to do that. I think someone else is Rush, Rush Shah, who they, they more recently hired to run their controls program.
[00:22:18] And it turns out Rush has been a great. mentor. I don't know if you want to speak to that, Nathanseth, just like what it's like to work for someone like, like Rush and what his outlook is and how he's helped you through those difficult first, you know, first year of employment.
[00:22:34] Nathanseth Cruz: Yeah, Rush is a positive force, right?
[00:22:37] And he has a great vision. He doesn't just have a vision of the bigger picture. He looks at each and every one of us, and he talks to, when he first got hired, he spoke to me individually, and he asked me, he said, what is your goal? What do you want? And I told him a list of things I want in my future, how I want it to look like.[00:23:00]
[00:23:00] And he said, so that is what we're going to work towards. And he said that he's going to help me work towards that, that vision and that dream. So, Not just him looking at, okay, I need to, you know, lead this department. He looks at all of us and he says, he says he needs to lead each and every one of us individually.
[00:23:21] Help us, each and every one of us grow. And that from the very, from the very first time I met him, that impressed me. You know, 'cause you don't get that from everybody. He took the time, he, he had the patience. And to this day when there's something that I don't completely understand and completely know, he was sit, he was sitting me down and, you know, some of the new hires and he would explain it to us.
[00:23:47] With no worry, no concern, no frustration. He'll sit there and he'll explain it to us. For someone that's supposed to be leading the department, he makes that, that [00:24:00] effort to each person and not just developing the whole department, just each and every one of us. And that alone is a, is a big statement to me personally.
[00:24:09] That's a... You don't see that often.
[00:24:13] Michael Conway: It's a, you know, not, not yet a large organization, right? Everyone is working as hard as they can. They're growing like rapidly because of the quality of their work. So yes, very rapidly. Like the work environment. And I bring that back to like, when we were talking about the classroom environment, that's why we're creating a classroom environment like that.
[00:24:34] Our, our industry contacts, right, where we're getting our input from. Is that's the work environment that they want workers prepared for, right? So that's why we do that specifically in our classroom. And we do it strategically, right? We do a thing, um, that's called appreciations, right? Very, very simple activity where, um, at the end of class, it's peer to peer.
[00:24:58] So it's, it's learner to learner, [00:25:00] student to student, where they like, it's more than shout outs. We have to actually train them to get very specific. How did someone help you? What did they help you with? What did they do that was helpful, right? So they describe that and they give each other that appreciations and that leads up to this activity that we call hot seat I don't know if you want to describe that Nathanseth and what it was like for you.
[00:25:23] Nathanseth Cruz: Yeah, it was Hot seat is it's we often overlook what we're capable of We often overlook our own knowledge and what we do on a daily basis. Something we think is so small to somebody else we possibly help or, you know, con had some contact with and sees that something amazing. So correct me if I'm wrong, we would, he would pick someone from the group and you have 'em sit up front and people from the class [00:26:00] would basically comment.
[00:26:03] and say what they did that day or things you saw them do and what kind of person they are and how this positive thing that would just flow in and I think I was in the hot seat once. I think I was in the hot seat once and that was overwhelming. I've never, it was overwhelming. I was in the hot seat once and I think it was actually towards the end of the cohort and it was It was intense.
[00:26:35] I'm hearing a whole bunch of things. I'm like, really? I would've never thought of it. I would've never assumed these people view me this kind of way, had this thought of me, or that I made such an impact on someone's day. And that activity to this day is probably the most, like... Aw. Surprising and impactful activities I've [00:27:00] ever had in contact with.
[00:27:01] Rosy Khalife: That's awesome.
[00:27:02] Michael Conway: I think we can hear like the commitment and, and uh, to the industry and to, to the job to definitely the Stacks and Jules, he's a, he's a band leader. One other thing, uh, uh, is, um, cause I really just want to make sure that we get this in Nathanseth is, uh, and this is about our program too, right?
[00:27:21] It is, um, It's not, we're not a train and then put them out into the, you know, send them out there to get a job. We, we support very intensely for at least the first year afterwards. And sometimes it takes, you know, some work to get a job. But in, in Nathan's, um, uh, case. You know, those first months were hard.
[00:27:44] It typically is for our graduates, really, those first months on the job. Mainly because they really want to do a good job, and they're completely overwhelmed with how much new information and what they don't know. And so they worry that they're not doing a good job. So they are, they're kind of freaking out.[00:28:00]
[00:28:00] And we, um, we connected Nathanseth with, um, Steven Crowe. Who, uh, I think at that point was working with Resolute Building Intelligence, and then moved on to Netix AI, and is now with Jackson Controls. Yes. Can you describe, like, what, what that relationship was like, or what, what you did, and what that meant to you?
[00:28:27] Nathanseth Cruz: Steven, again, someone else in my life that kind of thinks of Mike and John has been very influential, and again, another positive force, um, He, when I had my moments where I'm like, Steve, I don't know, I don't know if I'm capable of doing this. I don't know if I can attain that goal that I, I desire, you know, attain that, that project manager status.
[00:28:56] And I told him at some point, um, you know, [00:29:00] be more than just a project management, you know, be, be more than that. And he's called me when I texted him and said things like this. And he had to, Hey dude, take a minute, take a step back. He's like, we all have these days. And we all go through it, you know, just take a minute, take a breather.
[00:29:20] And he keeps telling me to do this, and I still have yet to do this. I need to, he's like, write down all the things you do right. Every win, small or large, write it down. So whenever you have that loss, and you feel like you're down, and you're not doing much, and you're going through a tough time. Take a look at that list of what you've done.
[00:29:44] So all the good and right things you've done, all the things that made an impact, and it'll give you another sense of gratitude for how you come along and that one loss won't be as big once [00:30:00] you look at that list. So instead of writing it down, I kind of stink about it. I'm like, Hey, I did this, you know, but I need to start writing it down because it's, I'm pretty sure it would be a lot more impactful once I started doing that.
[00:30:12] But he is another amazing force, amazing person. We have, we used to have weekly, um, talks. I think it was on Wednesday, we would have a call and we'd talk for like an hour. Right, it would be scheduled for 30 minutes, but we'd get so caught up, we'd be on the phone for maybe an hour, an hour and 30 minutes, just talking back and forth and, you know, him giving me advice and, you know, we've spoken about, um, that he wants to come to New York at one point and I was telling him a whole bunch of places he can go to.
[00:30:45] He became a figure. In my life, like a positive, big brother, fatherly kind of figure, a mentor, right? Him and Rush are probably, [00:31:00] right now, my two biggest mentors at the moment, right? And I'm grateful. I'm truthfully, honestly grateful, especially that they got me in contact with Steve. He's... I, I can't even put into words like how motivational he's been for me so far.
[00:31:19] He's, there was a point where I was like, Oh no, I was like, I can't become a project manager. And he was like, you need help. There's some things I could show you, some things you can, you can, some tools, some tricks, some tips that you can help you get along and help you attain that goal more effectively and make things a lot easier for you.
[00:31:41] Michael Conway: It's one of these awesome cases where, um, you know, it's good work. I, I do feel I'm living a really good life and, um, uh, and that that's really important to me. It's also pragmatic. So if we're going to address the needs, you know, like the mission needs, um, [00:32:00] and the workforce needs, we've, we've got to be able to access.
[00:32:05] The talent that we haven't been getting to. And that takes many layers of work and very, very strategic approaches to how we teach. We do need to be dialed in on the technical side, right? That doesn't change, but I think we hear from, from Nathanseth that, that he's on point technically. Um, he's out there doing the work, but there's this, you know, there's also this, um, the aspect of, of how are we doing it?
[00:32:31] How are we keeping him involved? How are we helping him to see himself in this industry? Uh, how do we... When he's, when he's down, it's all of that work of connecting them with mentors, uh, checking in, uh, getting them connected with, with James Dice and the Nexus podcast. Um, that's going on for all the individuals that, that we're working with.
[00:32:53] So it's, it's a very, it's very intense. Uh, but the good thing is like. There's a lot of [00:33:00] really good people out there, right? We have people mentoring, um, line, lining up, uh, mentors. And, and definitely, um, if that's, that's an area that, that you'd be interested in, uh, please get in touch. Uh, we have some really great people to, to connect you with, that you can have a great impact on.
[00:33:18] Rosy Khalife: That leads me to my next question, and I'm sure what the audience is thinking about. How can people support and get involved with Stacks+Joules? So you mentioned mentorship, what else?
[00:33:29] Michael Conway: Uh, well, certainly you can, um, you know, hit our website and, and donate, um, Takes resources to, to bring in this talent. And, um, uh, I think, you know, connect with any of the companies that have hired to hear about the value that, that are, uh, that we're bringing.
[00:33:45] And it's not our goal. It's our mission. Our trainings are free. We do not charge. Uh, and we even go above and beyond to like offer stipends and things when we can, so that we can access that talent that is not, that has not [00:34:00] yet been, uh, accessed. So that's a big one. And, um, and then we're, we're always learning, we're modeling that, but it's also how we've built our program, right?
[00:34:09] It's constantly updating our curriculum and our, our approaches. So reach out. Uh, we'd love to have you as a guest in a, in a class, uh, either virtually or in person. And we'd love to, uh, work with you to develop an activity that we could even test out and, uh, and, and initiate in our classes.
[00:34:27] James Dice: Awesome. Well, Mike, Nathanseth, thanks so much for coming on the show.
[00:34:32] Really appreciate your guys story.
[00:34:34] Nathanseth Cruz: Thank you for having me, James. Thank you, Rosie.
[00:34:36] Rosy Khalife: Thank you both. Yeah, it was so inspiring. It's, Nathan, a lot of the things you said, I feel like, uh, people that are much older than you don't even know. And so I love, I love your wisdom. It was really, really special. And it was a message that really touched me today.
[00:34:53] So thank you for sharing that. And thanks for being honest with us.
[00:34:55] James Dice: Yes. And not everyone has mentors like that, even if they're in a different [00:35:00] position in life. Um, Rosie and I have had a similar day that you just described and we could really use a call from Mr. Steven Crowe to pump us up a little bit.
[00:35:10] Michael Conway: Well, James, I'd count you among my mentors. You've helped out in many ways with, uh, yeah, the membership and the The pro membership where I've learned so much about this industry, um, this experience now, meeting at conferences, um, so I really want to thank you and, and hope that you, uh, sincerely, you know, feel your, your effect on people like Nathanseth.
[00:35:32] James Dice: I do. Thanks for saying that.
[00:35:34] Rosy Khalife: That's so sweet, Mike. It's gonna make us cry. Yeah, it's the best.
[00:35:39] Michael Conway: We should all feel good.
[00:35:43] Rosy Khalife: Okay, friends. Thank you for listening to this episode. As we continue to grow our global community of change makers, we need your help for the next couple of months. We're challenging our listeners to share a link to their favorite nexus episode on LinkedIn with a short post about why you listen. It would really, [00:36:00] really help us out.
[00:36:01] Make sure to tag us in the post so we can see it. Have a good one.
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